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CasualAnze
Joined: 16 Mar 2011, 08:42
Posts: 1
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Oi
I have done some research about anarchism. Wikipedia mostly.
I have found some rough explenations about that topic.
But now i have one big question in my mind which i cant find an answer to.
If you could change nowadays politics to anarchism in one day somehow...how the next day (anarchy day)
would be different from today (democracy)
So real life differences between democracy and anarchism (most important ones). Not in the book, but in the use. So how do you imagine that day when
anarchy would take place in world.
Hope someone can answer that, so i can decide if anarchism is worth of bigger research
tnx
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| 17 Mar 2011, 10:24 |
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ungovernable
Joined: 17 Dec 2009, 23:59
Posts: 259
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Re: Question for anarchist
First anarchy isnt something you can build in 1 day
The big difference would be that povrety wouldnt exist anymore, everyone would be equal socially and economy, there wouldnt be hateful people, no abusive authority, people would be their own master and would decide how they want to live without some authority telling them what to do and how to live, etc...
http://www.anarchismfaq.org/
_________________
http://PunksAndSkins.com/dl.php?go=http://www.anarcho-punk.net
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| 17 Mar 2011, 13:45 |
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FilouZilla
Joined: 18 Mar 2011, 00:01
Posts: 6
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Re: Question for anarchist
You know, it would be life at NATURAL. The natural order would slowly be there, without their useless system, but it's true that we can't change the whole world in one day. And anarchists can't do it by force, peace cannot be kept by force, as we saw it in the laws. Laws don't work because people don't UNDERSTAND peace, they just obey at orders. To give a part of answer to the question, if there was anarchy people would be more independant. We're gonna think by ourselves and we're gonna build up our own conscience, everyone. People would be humans, not just parts of the gears of the system. It's not for tomorrow, but we can dream.
(I'm sorry if my english is bad... It's my first post on the forum and I speak french normally)
Edit: What the hell is this Candian flag for picture?! Got to change it right now... You know, that's a little bit stupid on a punk forum to put the flag of the country of the user if he don't have another picture. I'm against countries, and I find it stupid.
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| 18 Mar 2011, 00:12 |
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DxFxFx
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 19:38
Posts: 22
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Re: Question for anarchist
First of all, Ungovernable, how can everyone be equal on an economic and social level when, according to anarchism, there is no economy and no hierarchy? There has been wars fought since before government was ever established. Land has been invaded, people have been murdered and people have been robbed, even before government and law was created.
"It would be life at natural". Yes, the same way it is in the jungle. Kill or be killed, is the nature of all living animals, humans included. Lets say there is no government. You live in a small communal type of tribe, on rich soil near a river plentiful in water and fish and all types of resources. What's to stop another small communal tribe, who are deprived of food, living in a wasteland where they are unable to grow crops, from attacking your tribe and stealing your resources out of desperation?
It is the natural 'progression' of mankind. To build, trade, fight and establish. In every country on every continent, since the beginning of time. People have invaded, pillaged and stolen from other societies in order to survive. This is how we got to where we are today. Invade, colonise and establish.
This is why anarchism is bullshit.
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| 08 Jun 2011, 22:28 |
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FilouZilla
Joined: 18 Mar 2011, 00:01
Posts: 6
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Re: Question for anarchist
DxFxFx wrote: It is the natural 'progression' of mankind. To build, trade, fight and establish. In every country on every continent, since the beginning of time. People have invaded, pillaged and stolen from other societies in order to survive. This is how we got to where we are today. Invade, colonise and establish.
This is why human race is bullshit 
No, seriously, we're not bullshit because we can change and evolve, as we can see. We did the Holocaust, after we realized how stupid we were to do that, so we won't do it again. There is actually power in the world, and hopefully in the future we'll recognize that error and we will evolve again. In every mistake we learn, dude. So that's why anarchism is possible, some day in a future...
But there is something interesting in your post, that I can't answer 'cause I'm searching the answer. I want Ungovernable to answer it, because he seems to have a great opinion and he seems to be a real anarchist, not just someone saying "yeah freedom fuck the system fuck the institutions fuck yeeeeeaaaaah!!!". So my question to Ungovernable: under anarchism, how do we resolve conflicts? Because there is always conflicts, 'cause nobody thinks the same way (and that's why world's beautiful). Like in the exemple of DxFxFx, if two communities wants the same food, or something like that, how can we resolve it without starting a stupid war (like the actual system do)?
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| 09 Jun 2011, 00:12 |
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DxFxFx
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 19:38
Posts: 22
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Re: Question for anarchist
You said it, "nobody thinks the same way". Which is why anarchism would never work. Which is why some people learn from their mistakes, and some don't. If you don't think an incident like the Holocaust will never happen again, you're naive.
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| 09 Jun 2011, 00:32 |
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FilouZilla
Joined: 18 Mar 2011, 00:01
Posts: 6
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Re: Question for anarchist
I don't think that it could NEVER happen anymore. We learn from our mistakes, but we got to think by ourselves to do it. That's why I want to kick out that system; with it we'll never be able to think alone. For the conflicts, I said it; I can't answer^^' That's why I want the opinion of Ungovernable on this point.
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| 09 Jun 2011, 00:43 |
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Queeranarchy08
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 16:36
Posts: 30
Location: Riverside, CA
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Re: Question for anarchist
DxFxFx wrote: First of all, Ungovernable, how can everyone be equal on an economic and social level when, according to anarchism, there is no economy and no hierarchy? There has been wars fought since before government was ever established. Land has been invaded, people have been murdered and people have been robbed, even before government and law was created.
"It would be life at natural". Yes, the same way it is in the jungle. Kill or be killed, is the nature of all living animals, humans included. Lets say there is no government. You live in a small communal type of tribe, on rich soil near a river plentiful in water and fish and all types of resources. What's to stop another small communal tribe, who are deprived of food, living in a wasteland where they are unable to grow crops, from attacking your tribe and stealing your resources out of desperation?
It is the natural 'progression' of mankind. To build, trade, fight and establish. In every country on every continent, since the beginning of time. People have invaded, pillaged and stolen from other societies in order to survive. This is how we got to where we are today. Invade, colonise and establish.
This is why anarchism is bullshit.
Your concept of the human race is so naive and uninformed. Human nature is fluid depending on the social contexts and cultural environment. You are saying that human nature is destructive in any form when this has been proven wrong when you study global concepts of culture and the effect it has on human behavior.
So in a fucked up since, were corrupted has a human race now because of the impact of our social structures. It has nothing to do with human nature but the influence of these structures and cultural environments we live in.
I highly recommended you research Anarchism a little more before entering a debate. Here is a quote by Noam Chomsky, "The principle that human nature, in its psychological aspects, is nothing more than a product of history and given social relations removes all barriers to coercion and manipulation by the powerful."
_________________
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| 09 Jun 2011, 17:16 |
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Ripvil
Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:28
Posts: 192
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Re: Question for anarchist
DxFxFx wrote: You said it, "nobody thinks the same way". Which is why anarchism would never work. Which is why some people learn from their mistakes, and some don't. If you don't think an incident like the Holocaust will never happen again, you're naive.
If the Holocaust happened today Hitler would have nukes and he would have nuked half the world as Russia invaded--if not before then. As his bombs were flying towards us, we would bomb the other half. And you know who wins? The universe that never even knew we existed.
The intelligent opinion is that we should stop this inevitable conflict from happening by uniting the world in equality, you seem to believe otherwise, patriot.
Everyone doesn't have to think alike for anarchism to work, what a silly thing to say. If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should have enough food, shelter and clean water before anyone's luxuries are looked to, that's half the battle. If we can agree that the life and comfort of a child is more precious than an adult's, we have an additional precept to help shape our new world. Now, what? Everyone should have to do something constructive to profit from the work of everyone else, if we can agree on that we have the basic system to run the entire world set up, all we need to do is work on the details after that. We can, I believe, agree on what is most important. Those rational men and women can, atleast.
Don't use the word naive, I can't think of a word that describes you any better. You know too little and speak too much.
_________________
"Liberty,as we all know,cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a war footing, or even a near war footing.Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of central government."
Aldous Huxley
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| 09 Jun 2011, 18:53 |
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DxFxFx
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 19:38
Posts: 22
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Re: Question for anarchist
Ripvil wrote: DxFxFx wrote: You said it, "nobody thinks the same way". Which is why anarchism would never work. Which is why some people learn from their mistakes, and some don't. If you don't think an incident like the Holocaust will never happen again, you're naive. If the Holocaust happened today Hitler would have nukes and he would have nuked half the world as Russia invaded--if not before then. As his bombs were flying towards us, we would bomb the other half. And you know who wins? The universe that never even knew we existed. The intelligent opinion is that we should stop this inevitable conflict from happening by uniting the world in equality, you seem to believe otherwise, patriot. Everyone doesn't have to think alike for anarchism to work, what a silly thing to say. If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should have enough food, shelter and clean water before anyone's luxuries are looked to, that's half the battle. If we can agree that the life and comfort of a child is more precious than an adult's, we have an additional precept to help shape our new world. Now, what? Everyone should have to do something constructive to profit from the work of everyone else, if we can agree on that we have the basic system to run the entire world set up, all we need to do is work on the details after that. We can, I believe, agree on what is most important. Those rational men and women can, atleast. Don't use the word naive, I can't think of a word that describes you any better. You know too little and speak too much.
Naive to a 40-something year old self-proclaimed anarchist? That's funny to me. At some point in the past, people decided to build governments, currency, establish laws, etc...what's to stop that from happening again?
The people that refuse to do something constructive to profit from everyone else's work and rather take by force, what about those people?
"If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should..." Thats funny cause everyone can agree implies that everyone has to the think the same in order to make this work You're a moron
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| 09 Jun 2011, 19:54 |
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Ripvil
Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:28
Posts: 192
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Re: Question for anarchist
DxFxFx wrote: Ripvil wrote: If the Holocaust happened today Hitler would have nukes and he would have nuked half the world as Russia invaded--if not before then. As his bombs were flying towards us, we would bomb the other half. And you know who wins? The universe that never even knew we existed.
The intelligent opinion is that we should stop this inevitable conflict from happening by uniting the world in equality, you seem to believe otherwise, patriot.
Everyone doesn't have to think alike for anarchism to work, what a silly thing to say. If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should have enough food, shelter and clean water before anyone's luxuries are looked to, that's half the battle. If we can agree that the life and comfort of a child is more precious than an adult's, we have an additional precept to help shape our new world. Now, what? Everyone should have to do something constructive to profit from the work of everyone else, if we can agree on that we have the basic system to run the entire world set up, all we need to do is work on the details after that. We can, I believe, agree on what is most important. Those rational men and women can, atleast.
Don't use the word naive, I can't think of a word that describes you any better. You know too little and speak too much. Naive to a 40-something year old self-proclaimed anarchist? That's funny to me. At some point in the past, people decided to build governments, currency, establish laws, etc...what's to stop that from happening again? The people that refuse to do something constructive to profit from everyone else's work and rather take by force, what about those people? "If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should..." Thats funny cause everyone can agree implies that everyone has to the think the same in order to make this work You're a moron
I'm 22... and I never claimed to be an anarchist, in fact I've told you a few times that I'm not... That's funny to me.
The world wasn't united in a system that had every person in the world living in relative comfort, when we made all those things. That is kind of an important factor in this equation, lol...
The people that refuse to work to help support themselves and their brothers are not supported. If they break the law to feed themselves they are punished. They are free to grow food, hunt, etc(with none of the money-grab shit there is today) they can build their own home wherever they want(so long as it brings no harm to anyone else), because the world belongs to all men equally. If you don't contribute, you don't profit, it is simple really. They do not even have to be socially outcast, in fact my opinion is that these people would make up some of the greatest artists in this theoretical world.
"everyone has to the think the same in order to make this work You're a moron" Can you not agree on the few things I said? If not, you sir, are something less than human. And either way, you are the moron. In my opinion =)
_________________
"Liberty,as we all know,cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a war footing, or even a near war footing.Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of central government."
Aldous Huxley
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| 09 Jun 2011, 20:15 |
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DxFxFx
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 19:38
Posts: 22
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Re: Question for anarchist
Ripvil wrote: DxFxFx wrote: Ripvil wrote: If the Holocaust happened today Hitler would have nukes and he would have nuked half the world as Russia invaded--if not before then. As his bombs were flying towards us, we would bomb the other half. And you know who wins? The universe that never even knew we existed.
The intelligent opinion is that we should stop this inevitable conflict from happening by uniting the world in equality, you seem to believe otherwise, patriot.
Everyone doesn't have to think alike for anarchism to work, what a silly thing to say. If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should have enough food, shelter and clean water before anyone's luxuries are looked to, that's half the battle. If we can agree that the life and comfort of a child is more precious than an adult's, we have an additional precept to help shape our new world. Now, what? Everyone should have to do something constructive to profit from the work of everyone else, if we can agree on that we have the basic system to run the entire world set up, all we need to do is work on the details after that. We can, I believe, agree on what is most important. Those rational men and women can, atleast.
Don't use the word naive, I can't think of a word that describes you any better. You know too little and speak too much. Naive to a 40-something year old self-proclaimed anarchist? That's funny to me. At some point in the past, people decided to build governments, currency, establish laws, etc...what's to stop that from happening again? The people that refuse to do something constructive to profit from everyone else's work and rather take by force, what about those people? "If everyone can agree that everyone in the world should..." Thats funny cause everyone can agree implies that everyone has to the think the same in order to make this work You're a moron I'm 22... and I never claimed to be an anarchist, in fact I've told you a few times that I'm not... That's funny to me. The world wasn't united in a system that had every person in the world living in relative comfort, when we made all those things. That is kind of an important factor in this equation, lol... The people that refuse to work to help support themselves and their brothers are not supported. If they break the law to feed themselves they are punished. They are free to grow food, hunt, etc(with none of the money-grab shit there is today) they can build their own home wherever they want(so long as it brings no harm to anyone else), because the world belongs to all men equally. If you don't contribute, you don't profit, it is simple really. They do not even have to be socially outcast, in fact my opinion is that these people would make up some of the greatest artists in this theoretical world. " everyone has to the think the same in order to make this work You're a moron" Can you not agree on the few things I said? If not, you sir, are something less than human. And either way, you are the moron. In my opinion =)
You've defended anarchism and even made some statements against capitalism. All I'm saying is it could never work. You make it sound like some peaceful communal utopia where food is plentiful and life is easy. There would still be wars fought, famine, diseases and lack of knowledge. You'd probably still cry about something even if there was no government.
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| 09 Jun 2011, 21:32 |
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Ripvil
Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:28
Posts: 192
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Re: Question for anarchist
Ofcourse I would still be trying to solve problems! If you have not realized by now(however old you are, 40-something?) there are always going to be problems of some sort. What I'm saying is that the problems I'm complaining about should not be starvation and lack of shelter, it is quite simple to fix those problems if we really want to. The problem is, Capitalism has no slaves if no one is starving.
I've defended anarchism only from the fallacy that you've posted about it. If you had a problem with it that actually made sense, I wouldn't be arguing with you. There are logical problems with the idea, in my opinion, you just have not thought and read enough about it to see them. The fact that I disagree with you does not put me in some particular group, stop acting like an insulted child. I know more about Fascism and Capitalism than you do too, does that make me a capitalist fascist anarchist? Knowledge of a belief-set is--obviously--not the same as belief. I'll say though, that Anarchism is a much better alternative than what you believe in. The main problem I have about it is that it is not designed to further science--which means one of the fundamental human necessities for happiness is not fulfilled, not commonly enough, anyway.
_________________
"Liberty,as we all know,cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a war footing, or even a near war footing.Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of central government."
Aldous Huxley
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| 09 Jun 2011, 22:36 |
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punkandroll
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 20:29
Posts: 5
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Re: Question for anarchist
ungovernable wrote: First anarchy isnt something you can build in 1 day
The big difference would be that povrety wouldnt exist anymore, everyone would be equal socially and economy, there wouldnt be hateful people, no abusive authority, people would be their own master and would decide how they want to live without some authority telling them what to do and how to live, etc...
http://punksandskins.com/dl.php?go=http://www.anarchismfaq.org/
Dude, so what you are saying is that everyone would be equal and if you wanted a little bit of extra money to buy that guitar you allways wanted, even if you worked harder for it, you wouldn't ever be able to buy it right? And when if a company needed millions of dollars to find a cure for cancer? And there will always be people that just wouldnt work as everyone else, but still be getting money...
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| 16 Sep 2011, 17:28 |
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punkandroll
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 20:29
Posts: 5
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Re: Question for anarchist
DxFxFx wrote: First of all, Ungovernable, how can everyone be equal on an economic and social level when, according to anarchism, there is no economy and no hierarchy? There has been wars fought since before government was ever established. Land has been invaded, people have been murdered and people have been robbed, even before government and law was created.
"It would be life at natural". Yes, the same way it is in the jungle. Kill or be killed, is the nature of all living animals, humans included. Lets say there is no government. You live in a small communal type of tribe, on rich soil near a river plentiful in water and fish and all types of resources. What's to stop another small communal tribe, who are deprived of food, living in a wasteland where they are unable to grow crops, from attacking your tribe and stealing your resources out of desperation?
It is the natural 'progression' of mankind. To build, trade, fight and establish. In every country on every continent, since the beginning of time. People have invaded, pillaged and stolen from other societies in order to survive. This is how we got to where we are today. Invade, colonise and establish.
This is why anarchism is bullshit.
well said!
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| 16 Sep 2011, 17:33 |
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Sam TheSlick
Joined: 08 Jul 2011, 02:51
Posts: 20
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Re: Question for anarchist
i myself have little respect for authority, so i went to anarchism as my headline, but that's changed. im still sorda anarchist, but there is no way in hell any of our societies are ready for it. there are however some closed societies and the uk that are anarchistic, and they have order. its a matter of when the race can grow up. at the end, i believe in anarchy......... WITHIN order
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| 23 Sep 2011, 20:21 |
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Sam TheSlick
Joined: 08 Jul 2011, 02:51
Posts: 20
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Re: Question for anarchist
human race*
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| 24 Sep 2011, 13:56 |
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katakhom
Joined: 10 Nov 2012, 04:18
Posts: 14
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Re: Question for anarchist
In the U.S. we just had an election for presidency won by Barack Obama, who did NOT win the popular vote, but the house vote. In an anarchist society, there'd be no God damn house. There's the people, and that's all. U.S. citizens forget that they ARE the government and let themselves be kicked around.
_________________
"Taking control with home-made rock and roll!" -Katakhom the Bard
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| 12 Nov 2012, 05:23 |
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