Welcome to PunksAndSkins.com

Please login or register

Being a member will give you full access to the website and will allow you to participate to the discussion forums



Log-in

 
 
   Lost your password?

Not a member yet? Sign Up!

Username:  

E-mail Address:  

Confirm E-mail:  
Password:  
Confirm Password:

[Anti-Bot] What continent is United States located on ?


View unanswered posts | View active topics






 Share on Facebook

more SKINHEAD t-shirts
more PUNK t-shirts
more SKA t-shirts
Animal Liberation t-shirts
Anti-capitalist t-shirts

Music Downloads

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
 Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:28
Posts: 192
Post  Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak
Share this album on Facebook

Sayzak didn't appreciate my critique of Plato, so he spent an hour trying to convince me that Plato is worth reading. At the end, his first point is the only thing I will concede, other than that the strongest arguments he had all involved Socrates, and I don't believe that Socrates is reason enough to read Plato. But yeah, the allegory of the cave is undeniably worth reading. But, instead of wasting your time reading entire volumes for this one helpful story, here's a three-minute video.

Damn. I always forget you can't embed videos on here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM


Are you a prisoner?

_________________
"Liberty,as we all know,cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a war footing, or even a near war footing.Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of central government."

Aldous Huxley


13 Jul 2011, 17:51
Profile
United States

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 13:10
Posts: 11
Post  Re: Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak

Context is everything. This is always true, and is so much more true with something as profound as Plato's cave. For this reason, if you feel Plato's Cave is a necessary read, then it follows that Republic as a whole is a necessary read. If only to examine the foundations for the idea, and more importantly, the consequences of the idea of the cave. A 3-minute video simply doesn't do justice to one of the greatest works of Philosophy of all time.

17 Jul 2011, 23:25
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:28
Posts: 192
Post  Re: Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak

Lol, you mean what is, in your opinion, one of the greatest works of philosophy of all time. I admit, if this was 2200 years ago, it would be great, I would be impressed with Plato. In our day, however, Plato is rarely valid.

I would not waste my time reading the entire Republic, had I not already done so. Protagoras, in my opinion, is the closest thing to a necessary read within Plato's works, but there are dozens of more modern, more logical books that approach the same issue so much better. It's like reading Homer when I could be reading Dostoevsky. Homer is great for having existed almost 3000 years ago, however, we now have Nietzsche and Sartre, Einstein, Voltaire, Huxley, Paine, Jefferson, Locke, Kant, Rand, to be more concise, we have a million authors which are, in my opinion, a million times more worth reading than Plato or Homer, 2200-3000 years after their deaths. If you're going to study an ancient Greek atleast make it the greatest one--whom Plato hated and stole ideas from--Democritus. Xenophon is also much more interesting than Plato, in my opinion.

In my opinion, the only reason to read Plato or Homer is because you want to be able to make references to them to make yourself seem more witty. I admit, this is why I read them when I was younger. And it certainly works, but you could probably waste that time accomplishing something a little more useful.

_________________
"Liberty,as we all know,cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a war footing, or even a near war footing.Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of central government."

Aldous Huxley


18 Jul 2011, 19:47
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 14:59
Posts: 166
Post  Re: Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak

If something isn't valid or even somewhat related to modern Times, It is a useless Philosophy. " but you could probably waste that time accomplishing something a little more useful." - This is basically as far as this goes.

18 Jul 2011, 21:18
Profile
United States

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 13:10
Posts: 11
Post  Re: Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak

Ripvil,

I certainly must thank you. You gave me a gigantic laugh, YOU advocating the reading of Locke, Jefferson, Paine, and Rand (I assume you meant Ayn.) Firstly, I strongly disagree with the assertion that we should only read Modern or Post-Modern writings. There are clearly timeless values espoused in ancient writing, albeit you can argue about whether Plato qualifies. And Homer clearly qualifies. His epics were simply great stories. As for Plato, you haven't really spelled out what it is that you feel makes his writings so worthless. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this was for the purpose of brevity. That being said, Plato offers many indirect benefits. There is value in reading him if only for the connections with Aristotle, the greatest Philosopher of all time. While I assume that you'll have something dispariging to say about him as well, I would like to point out that he is the father of logic as we understand it, something you should be a fan of, considering how often you praise logic. Furthermore, while Democritus had some insightful philosophical ideas, he was more impactful in science than philosophy. And for future notice, I wouldn't suggest leading by telling me to include my opinion on who is a great philosopher... and then labeling someone the greatest Ancient Greek philosopher. Finally, it's a bit nonsensical to say there is NO reason to read Homer or Plato. Homer's works, as works of fiction, are enjoyable, even if not great philosophical works. Same reason I read Fitzgerald, Bronte, or either of the Adams'. And even if you prioritize Plato's works pretty low on the reading list, I'm sure there are things you do that are less beneficial, as we all do.


22 Jul 2011, 07:06
Profile
User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2011, 10:28
Posts: 192
Post  Re: Plato's cave: brought to you by Sayzak

Lol, good, I love to make people laugh. I don't have to agree 100% with someone to agree with many of their assertions, that would be pretty silly. I'd have the perspective of a tunicate if that were the case.

Plato had a few good ideas, but he was over-all an ignorant ass. He told the scientists not to look at the stars or study nature, but that they should simply think about it. He advocated burning the books of Democritus while stealing his words and re-printing them in the guise of Socrates.(According to Bertrand Russell) All this because Democritus was the greatest scientist of all time, the ideas of Democritus(which mostly turned out to be true) contradicted Plato. Plato could not handle contradiction. Every one of Plato's good ideas has been re-printed and more intelligently espoused a thousand times over, without all the underlying ignorance, therefore I think we should read those works instead of Plato. It is, as a matter of course, a personal choice, I'm simply giving my opinion.

You can consider Aristotle the father of logic if you'd like, but then you'll have to consider Socrates the grandfather. And then Democritus the great-grandfather and Leucippus the great-great. Aristotle had some good things to say too, but once again Nietzsche(just to name a single, and one of my personal favourite examples) tore apart the philosophy of Aristotle and said everything much better. In my opinion.

Lol, sorry I didn't write "in my opinion" after that idea, I thought it was well-understood that everything I say is an opinion. The funniest part about that comment is that I thought of putting it there too, but realized that I had already said "in my opinion" enough times in that particular reply. Saying Democritus wasn't a great philosopher is silly, many of the things you think Socrates said were paraphrased from his work. A few examples:

"To a wise man, the whole earth is open; for the native land of a good soul is the whole earth."

"If your desires are not great, a little will seem much to you; for small appetite makes poverty equivalent to wealth."(this is the idea Socrates lived by, if he existed)

"No power and no treasure can outweigh the extension of our knowledge."

"Many much-learned men have no intelligence."

"We know nothing accurately in reality, but [only] as it changes according to the bodily condition, and the constitution of those things that flow upon [the body] and impinge upon it."

"Strength of body is nobility only in beasts of burden, strength of character is nobility in man."

"Coition is a slight attack of apoplexy. For man gushes forth from man, and is separated by being torn apart with a kind of blow."

I do less beneficial things, but if I didn't do those things I wouldn't be reading anyway. If I wasn't reading Plato, however, I would be reading something that, in my opinion, benefits me more.

_________________
"Liberty,as we all know,cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a war footing, or even a near war footing.Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of central government."

Aldous Huxley


28 Jul 2011, 17:23
Profile
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 



Search for:
Jump to:  


 

**LOGIN

** 
Username:
 
Password:
 
 
Remember me  

Or click here to register a new account

 

LAST POSTS

 
• Re: Hi, this is Stain from Albacete, Spain.
• Re: Кто может проконсультировать?
• Re: PUREVIL DC Punk early 80's
• Re: Preved. Your answer is machless... :)
• Re: 17/04 Elway + Joe McMahon (Smoke Or Fire) @Winston Amsterdam
• Re: Hi from France
• Re: Punk survey
• Re: Lay It On The Line - The Black Museum
• Re: No Gods No Masters buyer review
• No Gods No Masters buyer review
• Re: Preved. Your answer is machless... :)
• Re: punk surfing
• Re: Any skins/punks from Kansas City Missouri area?
• Re: PRECURSOR (x The Fullblast /Daggermouth) 12" Pre Order +more




You will need a software like WINRAR to open the albums you download here.

* * *


Add us to your friends !

* * *



* * *


Use this image to link to us !



 

MOST POPULAR SEARCH TERMS

 
template->_php_include(): File ./popsearch.php does not exist or is empty


 

LAST SEARCH FOR:

 
 • Besancon • Pöblers united • Strength In Numbers • Amparanoia • Skin Deep - The Burial • Groovie Ghoulies 99 • 2 Minuta Mrznje • Kingdom the rage that guides • Trocki • Guts Pie Earshot • The business rio • New Dawn Fades • Fuera del sektor • Genocide Superstars • The Maytones • Risen • Murphys Law The Best Of Times • Mu330 • Crisis Ends • Edith Nylon • Disidencia • Garçons • Nosotros Decimos No • Scarface Ska • Nofx war • The Liberators • Death Threat Nowhere Fast • Jugend • Eddie Spaghetti The Sauce • Michale Graves - Demos Live Cuts Vol. Iv • Koliko • Los Pies Negros • Dead Kennedys Plastic Surgery Disasters • Brother Inferior ?– Blasphemy Treason • Cxdxrx • 99 bottles • Fine young firecrackers  • Lady -saw • Kategorie C • Desvirgheitors • Backyard Babies ? Backyard Babies -2008 • Aftermath uk • Pledge • Kaaos -kasetti ** ** 8=8 • Jesuseater • Societic Death Slaughter • Hard Skin • The Flys • The Tostones • Raptus • Todays The Day • Total Terror • The haggis • The Ska Album •  music ich bin ein punk • The kids • The Broadways • Agnostic Front Warriors • Narcissus - crave collapse • Ni o zombi • Port  • Metro st • Berurier Noir Porcherie • The Whores • The Oppressed Fatal Blow • World/inferno Friendship Society • Poison Idea Discografia • 7 Seconds Walk Together Rock Together • Anti -flag - die for your government • Tronic • Leather bristles survivors sick boys • Deathcore • Natty combo • Defensa Y Justicia • G.g.allin • Instinct • Only Living Witness • Mash -up • The Potato 5 • Stormcrow • Vent • Enraged • Sample • Arsonists • Varning • Stupenda jones • The Jam Gold • Accords • Hortense Ellis • Raymonde Et Les Blancs Becs • Oxnard • Sex pistols • Les Collabos - Complete Discography (1983-85) - 2010 - Punk • Pinstripes • Chasing Hamburg • Dry amp; heavy • Suicide machines least worst of • Jornada Del Caos • New Christs • Tributo A Madness • La theorie du boxon • Morgue • The Knob • Skacha • Rock`n roll • I Love Ufo • Purple • Salsa • Geraniüm • La rona • Burnt • Nadie • Sonny moore • Deadly Games Varukers • Tampere Ss - Kuollut • Tampere Ss - Kuollut • Skank to • Tampere Ss - Kuollut • Tampere Ss - Kuollut • Alien Sex Fiend



* NO FILES ARE HOSTED ON OUR SERVERS *
* The links are either posted by a member of our site or a robot *
* For copyright issues, either contact the original uploader OR the website where the physical file is hosted. *
* PunkAndSkins.com is an index of files crawled by spider bots, just like google. *
* We can't moderate everything posted on this site. Because something was posted by a robot doesn't means we support the band and their ideas. We are sorry if you found something that shouldn't be here. *
Forum software by PhpBB.com T-Shirt Printing